Still when I go through some of the websides, I accindentally

stumble upon websides - that are still run by some old associates

and are still using my name or offering tapes or dvd's of my old seminars. Steve Douglas Gartin, a man I once trusted and with him

Chess Clements - I did had requested several times for them to stop

using my name, or using my name to promote them and their

business ventures.

Steve douglas Gartin was, only, ONCE, one of my finest students

until he got "flipped" and went off on me and my family and my close associates. He had been a treat to my family, my close associates,

and wanted to take them to court - if my family or my close associates were selling tapes or even use the name family gathering. Still after many of my requests, they, Chess Clements and Steve Gartin are still selling tapes and dvd of old seminars.

You, Steve douglas Gartin and Chess Clements will not use any

more my name, can't sell any movie, dvd or tape with my facial expression, use my name, treaten my family or associates and also

will not and shall not sell other movie material with my Senior

disciples on it. Anything that relates to me, my name Willem de Thouars and my art.

You Steve douglas Gartin, where are you - are you in hiding - are

you in jail or do you play the disappearing act??????????????

You laid your own bed, guy, you always blamed someone else for your screw up's! Mistakes are made and I agree, by everyone

- but most of the mistakes was made by YOU AND YOU! Always it is your fault blaming me for your failure - because you are a failure!!!!!!!! You need to get off your high behind and start working

for a change and less whining what someone had done to you!

I resided in Colorado since 1964 and not the late 70's.

My brothers, Paul and victor and what was the gentleman's name I sponsered - o, ja, Theo Tjung Oen or Un Un suraya.

You claimed to be the founder of American kun tao silat - I did not give you permision to include me with your other teachers.

Drop me off your teacher's list, just mention Paul, victor and  Theo

Tjong Oen. According to your "BS" we all settled in Colorado

since the late 70's. I hate you Steve Gartin - you are a racist!!!!!!

You and your smile, it is your smile I hate the most.

And now, you a Jew hater, call your self a preacher and teach the bible?  You also don't like color of skin and is there for I rebuke you and want you to stop immidiately using my name.

Sell your own garbage and advertise those other teachers.

You commented last time and praise someone for being a MAN,

well I am a MAN - and I hate you hypocrite, you and your religion.

If you like to be the founder of the American kun tao silat - so be

it! But not with my name, or any form of my art or any material out of kun tao silat de Thouars. Go a head take me to court, and I will

"spit" in your smiling face! My family held me back for many years,

afraid for you and Chess - I kept quite - not anymore!

I have many trained and surpassing you in knowledge, when it comes

to my art and system. I alone can be the judge in who is who in

kun tao silat de Thouars.

So Gartin and Clements - quit using my name, quit selling any material with me or my disciples.

So I got that off my chest and where ever you are hypocrite - you

shall not use any of my forms for your American kun tao silat

or your "stupid" far distance learning program.  

 In closing,bapak Willem de Thouars



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I must say I'm amazed with doing a search on Steve Gartin and Chas Clements!! Unreal...
I have a couple of questions regarding this subject.. And I am not trying to start anything between the individuals identified in this posting.. Just a couple of business questions as a result of reading the post.

Is the Kuntao Silat name trademarked and copyrighted? If this has, all it would take is a cease and desist court order to get things under control... Also has there been a contract signed between the individuals giving the individuals who are doing the dvd/tapes and selling them properitory rights for a certain amount of time to sell the images and subject matter on the products?

If this has been done, a visit to a lawyer might be the next step
Mr Bill,
The contract had been signed - and is void now. The contract I signed was illigal and would not stand
up in any court. It was to unprofessionally drawn up and was long time ago. The two individiuals, despite
many of my requests - are still trying to sell my old seminars, with my facial expressions and without
my approval. In what they had done to my family at home and associates and I, I trusted one, my own
student to much, ended up in me hating him in every way. He is on the run from the law or is in jail.
But I appreciate your good gestures, in thanking you, uncle bill
Hello again Mr de Thouars;

I am not sure about in the US but here one has automatic intellectual rights. That would mean that if you can prove in a court that the art is of your own creation (as taught in America) it is your product and cannot be used or profited from without your permission.

Maybe this can be some help to you.
Mani, that's a pretty good law - but not how it works here in the U.S. There COULD be a trademark on the style name - but it would not be considered a strong or defendable trademark due to the common use of the terms 'Kun Tao' and 'Silat.' - It may not get approved.

You COULD copyright the choreography - but others have tried this route, and it really does not work either.

The complaint that can work is that permission is not granted to use his likeness, etc. Then U just have to prove that it was not granted. Which really isn't that hard to do. But actually pressing a case against someone on the run from the law - THAT is very difficult.
In regards to the contract signed between Steve and Bapak - I have read it, and it does not deserve to be called a contract. When I was studying with Steve, he showed it to me, and I advised him to make good with Bapak, as the so-called contract did not specify anything required to make the claims towards intellectual property that he made.
Thank you,
Easy for me to proof, and even in court! uncle Bill
I've been trying to work out how to help Ba-pak Bill all day Mas. American law is so different than ours. Even though my sifu gave me full permission to use his name, when I stopped training with him (for geographic reasons) I stopped using it. His lineage is very famous but I'm an adult and should stand on my own to feet rather than live off his name. After all my employer coudn't give a damn what my father's name was.

The problem with this guy Steve and the others is that they use Ba-pak's name, image and his cerificates on videos etc. I've seen them on the net.

As we say here, they need to grow up and show some maturity (a very rare quality in martial arts) and respect.
Also Ba-pak Bill, I would humbly advise you, for your sake, to have this dicussion pulled down.

There are many things that you have said that I am sure are very true but could leave you open to legal action by these guys.

I would not want to see such eels get one over on you.
Thank you Mani,
Will consider it - and so it might be.
You are very welcome Ba-pak Bill. I wouldn't want to see any trouble visiting you from these leaches.


Art Kidwell

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